Carolyn Schnare:
I asked you which store to pick at the front of the show, but I’m sure I don’t really need to know your answer because it’s probably the same one as mine. You’d pick the welcoming one with open arms, which is what I’m going to do. Welcome to Convenience Matters. I’m Carolyn Schnare with NACS.

Chris Blasinsky:
And I’m Chris Blasinsky with NACS.

Carolyn Schnare:
Well Chris, today, we’re going to talk with a couple of folks with whom I’ve been on store tours, literally all over the world, well, at least the western hemisphere, anyway. We have with us Nick Scherzer, who is the Director at Insight Research in the United Kingdom and Mike Zahajko who is the Executive Vice President at CAF. Welcome guys! Hey guys!

Mike Zahajko:
Thank you, Carolyn!

Nick Scherzer:
Thanks, Carolyn. Good to be here.

Chris Blasinsky:
Hey guys!

Carolyn Schnare:
Well, so a funny little story real quick. So Nick and I have been friends for like, I don’t know, more than a dozen years. And Nick often cringes at my American enthusiasm as he calls it. Whereas with him, he usually yells at me and says you’re a bit much. So in order to make sure I’m at that level, Nick, give me your best hi. I need you to 10.

Nick Scherzer:
Hey Carolyn, I am at a 10 today and you’ve done well over the years through our friendship of training me on being at a 10. So great to be here with you guys today.

Carolyn Schnare:
That’s fantastic. When I go over, Nick’s like, can you bring it to about a 2 on a level of 1 to 10? So if I did that, everybody would hang up on the show. So we’re not going to do that! Anyway, a little bit of an inside joke and I’m going to throttle it back a little down to a 6. So I guess Chris, you and I have again, traveled around. We’ve seen these guys…we’ve been on a lot of store tours in Europe, here in the U..S over the years, but we always tend to visit the best-in-class stores. And Mike, you’ve joined us on a lot of these tours. So one of the things that I’m going to start with you, Mike, when we go on these store tours, when you go, when you leave the country, when you’re in the United States, what makes a store earn like that best-in-class status? What makes you want to put that on a store tour, Nick? You can jump in afterwards, but, but let’s just start there. What makes convenience stores awesome.

Mike Zahajko:
I have always loved convenience stores. My dad started in the industry at Tesoro years and years ago. So since a kid, so it’s been whatever 25 years, I’ve been going around and seeing gas stations. And you know what I think I see first is people always think, well, what happens when I open the door to gas station? What’s my experience. But I think that first impression starts earlier. I think it really starts as you pull into the lot, what’s my experience like whereas you’re seeing it from afar. And so for me, I definitely say, what is the first impression I get usually involves? What’s the lighting like out there? What’s the experience? How does the forecourt look? Are the pumps up or the operational or do they have cones in front of them? And then when I’m out there finally filling up, am I standing in oil? Is there banana and garbage around me, or is it clean? So that’s what I notice first. And I think the good news is the Google Reviews show that it’s the exact same for customers. The big thing though, is really when you walk in, that’s where I think things matter is what’s that friendliness that happens at the site to cause friendliness, Google has proven that goes the furthest to making a good first impression.

Carolyn Schnare:
Yeah, Nick, I mean to you…you’re famous for around the entire industry globally for putting together some of these really cool store tours. Chris, back day when they were at the NACS Global, now at the Convenience Summit Europe, Asia, all those fun things, you find some really cool stores and you’ve been doing this, I don’t know, probably your whole life and then some. Nick in your mind, what are some cool either some cool things that stores are doing out there and then also what are some examples that you’ve seen, especially lately, maybe not physically seen because you know, we’re still stuck in a global pandemic, but seen virtually maybe?

Nick Scherzer:
Yeah, Carolyn. I think we’ve really had a great opportunity over the years to visit some very cool retailers in different parts of the world. And I think one of the best parts of that experience is just having a group of retailers together from around the world and being able to meet up with retailers at their own sites. And I guess, building on what Mike was saying about what is it that makes those stores really cool and us to want to visit them. I think it comes down to that overall site experience like Mike says their appearance from, as you pull up onto the site, what does that look like through the doors and into the store? The engagement from the people who are running those sites through to the whole offer, particularly the fresh food side of things, the range of services right through to the bathrooms. And I think when you look at those best-in-class sites, it’s, it’s that recognition of the overall site experience that really sets those leading operators apart.

Chris Blasinsky:
Yeah. Nick, you guys have done some really fantastic webinars all throughout the pandemic with your Shop Talk Live series. And a lot of that is essentially a store tour of some of the really best in class retailers around the globe. And then we had some winners from the NACS Convenience Summit Europe this year, particularly Maxol won the Best of the Best. I’m guessing you’ve been to that site, yes?

Nick Scherzer:
I haven’t actually, I haven’t been to that particular site just because of the last year and obviously been traveled extensively in Ireland and seen that market develop over the years and it’s been an incredible journey of developments. And I think it’s, you know, Mike and I were talking about this the other day, how Irish retailers drew on so much of the experience from the U.S. going back, you know, 15+ years ago and took a lot of the learnings from leading retailers in the U.S. from the likes of Sheetz and Wawa, Rutters just to name a few and brought a lot of that learning back to their own market and customized it for the Irish market and have developed over the years. And I think it’s testament to a number of Irish retailers, but Maxol in particular, at this point in time having just won the next Best of the Best Award. And I think again, it goes to the overall site experience that they’ve created the offer in-store, and then the site standards. I think the site standards is a really big piece of it that Maxol have excelled as you know, in both…across the whole estate and in partnership with the sites that they run with Aramark.

Chris Blasinsky:
Yeah and everybody wants to go to Ireland from the U.S. Everybody wants to go to Ireland. They want to see what’s going on with foodservice. And it’s…there’s definitely been some really unique trips that NACS can can put that does put together and we’ll put together in the future going to different places around the world. When we get into 2022, we’re finally gonna get to go to Berlin since we got canceled on that and if memory serves me, correct they…it’s a convenience marke that’s a little bit in its infancy on the in-store offer. it is a large…the forecourt really is what is creating that experience like Mike, what you were getting into. I mean, they definitely are ahead of the curve in a lot of ways. There’s the EVs, there’s the hydrogen even, I believe, there was some propane, some natural gas, things like that going on over there. Those are to me are really differentiators, really unique in certain areas and emerging and others. So where, given what you guys have experience with, when retailers are bringing all this offer into the forecourt that’s not traditionally fuel, does that create challenges?

Mike Zahajko:
Well, I can answer that one. Certainly it does. I think the biggest change maybe is not so much the energy offering, but the being a consumer stop or a destination location, I’ve seen that being the biggest global trend where, you know, fuel has been slowly declining or remaining flat for a lot of areas in some markets like Norway, you have a high penetration of EV. I think the customer journey or destination has really been the focus for a lot of retailers. And particularly, they’re trying to do that by making their spaces a little bit more friendly. Making them larger, having a place to stop and stay. Chris, you mentioned Berlin and last time I was there, I was really impressed with that Star site. You walk in there, they have a great welcoming sign at the beginning, and then you go inside there and they did a really smart thing where as you look off to the right, that was where your foodservice experience was. So it almost felt like you’re walking into a Starbucks or a Panera Bread or something really nice. And then on the left side, it was more of a traditional c-store. So you got both experiences. And then right in the middle is that coffee destination. And then I was particularly impressed with the bathroom there. They have THE smallest restrooms period and you can touch all four walls at any given time, but they put in this…it looked as if you’re in the top of a tall building in Berlin and you could see out. So it made you feel like you weren’t as isolated when you’re in a tight little bathroom, but great experience. And you’re right, the world is changing. And I would say that Europe in a lot of ways has really gone ahead when it comes to the in-store offering. Although I see the U.S. trying to catch up, and some of the great retailers are really doing that and even making strides ahead.

Mike Zahajko:
And then I would actually give the U.S. more credit for the fuel, I think, in the forecourt experience and just how they run their sites. They’re usually bigger. They have a lot of parking. They’re about convenience and fast. There’s a good look and cleanliness about them. So I would say if you look at the two, I think that Europe is definitely ahead when it comes to in-store and the offerings and the look there. And then I think Europe is trying to…I see trends happening already with a lot of the big retailers there of going more to, how do I create that great, easy experience on the fuel side.

Nick Scherzer:
Yeah, I mean, Mike, I would definitely echo that and over the years, and particularly going back as long as 10 years ago, there was, on those retailer study tours, there was always an observation from the Americans commenting on the in-store offer and particularly around fresh food in Europe and how much further they felt that that was ahead. And then conversely, that in the U.S., the curbside appeal of the sites and the overall impression of the site was of a high standard. And I think one of the interesting things over the last,couple of years is that differences started to narrow substantially, whereas in the U.S., you’re seeing the developments of fresh food offers really increasing and advancing massively. And I think in Europe, certainly the emphasis and the focus on overall site appearance and experience, holistically as a site has accelerated dramatically and you see that with operators like Eurogarages across Europe, what Circle K has done across Northern Europe and Ireland, what the likes of Maxol and Applegreen have done exceptionally for, for a long time. But it’s just, I think there’s an innovation in terms of the focus on the overall site appearance and Chris, it links into the point you mentioned there about how there’s a lot of change in the industry right now. So the energy mix is changing the way retailers think about their sites and the future, as well as competition from the likes of online delivery services, dark kitchens, dark, convenience store warehouses, if you like. And I think it comes back to this idea that convenience and roadside retail, one of the key factors is that experience and the human connection in terms of those things that really matter to people is from right through from cleanliness to friendliness within the stores. And I think that’s a great advantage our industry has and we do really well.

Mike Zahajko:
Nick, I’d even say that not only are you right about it changing and getting more similar, I would say NACS is a big reason why that’s happening. I mean, as I’ve been going for the last seven years to these NACS events throughout Switzerland, Warsaw, U.S., you definitely see that that’s where retailers are getting their ideas from. They’re looking at each other and saying, what’s new, what’s happening. And then they’re bringing those good ideas back to their country. And then they start seeing trendsetters where there’ll be someone that looks just like a U.S. company in Europe, or it looks just like a European company in the U.S. so I really think NACS and having these events where you can see sites talk, collaborative, and the people that’s provided that chance to bring the highest standards in the best of the best more unilaterally across all the countries and markets.

Carolyn Schnare:
Yeah, I agree. I think you’re not…so we always used to say, I don’t know how long, one idea can change your business. And there was an NACS Show theme, like a couple dozen years ago or something, but it’s true. I mean,, I’ve seen some of the best-in-class like Rutter’s Scott Hartman and Rutter’s would come over to one of the Ireland events. And he might come back with one cool food concept that he thought and implement it and then build on it from there. And then some of the Europeans would come over and see that and go, oh, that’s cool. He added this now I’m going to go do it. It can be as simple as one thing, really, because you’re not going to, you don’t want to copy what you see over there, but it’s just different and it’s different cultures and it’s different countries and it’s, then it’s meshing it all together. And I think you said it, you hit the nail right on the head. It’s just getting out there and seeing what your competition is, who was across the street from you, what are they doing? Who’s down the road from you. Who’s a couple of states over if you’re here in the United States, who’s a couple of countries over because you both mentioned it that Germany is radically different in terms of convenience stores than Ireland. And to those of us, less kind of geography challenged like myself, it’s like, well, they’re right by each other, why aren’t they different? But it’s the same thing as, as a store in Texas and a store in Massachusetts here in the United States. So, you know, it’s just getting out there and seeing what’s out there and trying a few things here and there. Nick on the, on the flip side to what Mike said about going to Europe and seeing some of the cool concepts in each of these countries that you’ve been on now, you’ve come over to the United States a bunch of times and traveled a bunch of other places too, since then. But, do you see anything here in the States that folks in Europe might want to bring back to them or that they maybe implemented over the years having come over here and looked at some of our cool stores store tours?

Nick Scherzer:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and certainly just thinking of the years, the way in which U.S. retailers have built the food offering around coffee, and so your guys’ coffee programs, and I think the focus on coffee and really owning that category of coffee and then building food around that is something that the Europeans learned from the U.S. and have brought back and implemented. And Carolyn, you said something interesting there about, as much as you go to these different countries and learn things, you take those ideas back and you’re not necessarily copying them because you can’t just take one thing that works in one country and implemented exactly the same in your own country. So it’s about taking that principle and that idea and adapting it for your own markets. I think one thing that’s really always struck me about setting up these store tours and retailers who we take on them often comment that the hosting retailer is so welcoming and willing to share, and that surprises them sometimes.

Nick Scherzer:
And, particularly in the U.S. the retailers who welcomed us in with such open arms and there’s many of them so I’m not going to name them, but they’re right across the U.S.. And one of the things they’ve always said to us is, people can come and they can take photographs of the fixtures and the fittings and even the food offer and they can try and copy that. But the thing you can’t copy is the company culture and the operational execution that you can’t take a photo of. And it’s very…you can’t just bottle that, or buy it from a supplier in the same way you might buy a fridge unit or signs or whatever the case is. And, I think that that really goes to the heart of those leading retailers who understand what underpins it all is this operational excellence, the frontline staff in those stores and the company culture that drives that customer experience. And, that’s, that’s a wonderful thing to kind of share with when, when you come to the U.S. and honestly, I think, U.S. retailers do that with exception and Carolyn, they have the exuberance levels you have, which is always fun.

Carolyn Schnare:
You walk in the door and get a big howdy, right?

Nick Scherzer:
Sometimes it scares the European retailers, though! Why are all these people greeting me? The Europeans love that. It’s not to say that that doesn’t happen here, it’s just culturally in a different way.

Carolyn Schnare:
Well, they can’t all be, you know, “welcome to Moe’s,” which is big company over here. They just yell at you when you walk in and you’re like, ‘yes, why isn’t anyone saying hi to me when I’m in Europe?’ I’m just kidding. I guess one of the other questions too, and I want to just dig in a slight bit ,when the pandemic here and everywhere too, but especially here in the United States, we turned to mobile phones, mobile ordering, delivery, carry out, things like that. Did you see that as much over there where you could, Nick, place your order and…you even mentioned ghost kitchens, highlight the convenience food offering even more so when you couldn’t go in and pick it up off the shelf, they were open, your stores were open probably as much as ours were, but you know, you could scroll through the food offering while sitting on your couch. And I know Mike, I don’t know I’m just talking from a U.S. perspective, I could see on an app – I’ll pick Sheetz – I can see on the app what everything new is, what’s for dinner, what do I want to do, have a longer than a two second walk in, make my decision and leave kind of a moment there. So I guess as I ramble on Nick, my question was going to be, did mobile draw a lot more traffic into stores, do you think in, in light of the pandemic?

Nick Scherzer:
Yeah, I think so. You know, certainly to an extent, like you say, the stores remained open through the pandemic as essential retail, but I think one of the interesting things to witness was – and this is true I’m sure in the U.S. too – the rapid acceleration of retailers advancing their technology capabilities in terms of mobile app, ordering, curbside pickup and those kinds of things. And then probably over the last year or two, the entrance, or at least the advancements of a number of competitors to our channel who are operating either food offerings via apps from dark kitchens, and particularly in the major cities, as well as then effectively dark convenience stores or with warehousing and ordering apps. So I think that’s certainly created a bit of a different dynamic in terms of the overall market. So it’s been interesting to see the pace of which that’s developed.

Mike Zahajko:
Nick, I think you’re right. It’s amazing how fast COVID expedited things. And really there’s some customers that they’d always love that convenience of being an order go, but I’m amazed how much, and we were talking Nick you and I, with the reunion of the Global Forecourt Experience Challenge just yesterday. And so we heard from retailers all across the globe from South Africa to Ireland, to the U.S., and the fascinating part is business all across the world is coming back. People are coming back to the stores, they’re actually buying more when we’re there. So we’re seeing that the average basket size continues to rise and they’re buying less top-up items, although I think I’ve started sounding European when I say that, they’re buying groceries. So it’s just interesting to see how I think business is definitely returning. Everyone’s looking around saying, what are some of these long-term trends that are happening? Are people going back to work or they working remotely? Staycations? So I think retailers are looking to see what’s the big change and technology is definitely gonna be a big part of that. But I think as Nick mentioned earlier, just day-to-day store operations in the frontline employees, they continue to be the biggest part of providing that great customer experience. I was amazed. We do an in-depth study every year because in the U.S. we have tons of unilateral data and NACS puts out great material that says here’s,what’s happening across the U.S. Well, in Europe, it’s a whole bunch of small sets. Maybe it’s bad to say small, but compared to the U.S. smaller countries,- relatively small countries – that don’t share their data and the insights don’t go across the board as much as they do in the U.S.. And so what we did is we looked at a thousand different reviews from Google of what consumers are saying when they go to see stores and petrol stores across Europe. And surprisingly, it’s very similar to the U.S. although there are some unique trends, but the one universal thing is that friendliness. So Carolyn you were “hi! So glad to have you,” even in Europe, according to the study, 66% of the five-star reviews mentioned a friendly welcoming store. So maybe that smile and that level 11 excitement is starting to come across to Europe.

Carolyn Schnare:
Ahh there we go, Nick, get ready!

Nick Scherzer:
Mike shared with me, some of the high-level results of that survey. And it’s just interesting, particularly that friendliness came out as one of the number one reasons to visit a gas station or service station in Europe, as well as cleanliness and safety, which I think again, has been accelerated in terms of a concern for the consumer during the pandemic. But I think on the friendliness point, it kind of links into that competition coming from advancements in technology and online delivery and those kinds of things. I think one of the really cool things for our industry is that the sites are well-positioned for where people are traveling. And one of the things people want is that human interaction and the overall site experience. And so I think it kind of plays into the importance of increasing importance of that as we go forward into the future with the changing role of convenience and gas station locations, and just becoming even furthermore, establishing ourselves as destinations that offer a wide range of services and food offers.

Mike Zahajko:
Now, maybe I can turn the questions back around at Chris and Carolyn for a second.

Chris Blasinsky:
I was going to, I was going to ask you a question, but I was listening to you guys, and I forgot what I was going to ask.

Mike Zahajko:
So my question back to you is, when you look in here and you speak with so many retailers across the world, but what do you see as far as the long-term trends that will come out of this changing retail dynamic from the pandemic, people are changing and got labor shortages, shortages of actual products, getting Coke and Pepsi to the store. You know, what are you seeing as those top of mind issues for other retailers?

Chris Blasinsky:
Yeah, well, you just hit the two top of mind issues right now, which is, there’s shortages for labor, especially on around that third shift. And then the supply chain issues. We had a retailer survey that we did not too long ago. There’s not a whole lot of confidence that that’s going to get dramatically better by the end of the year. So what seems short-term may actually end up carrying into 2022. It’s certainly fixable, but there’s not a quick fix. Fortunately with the NACS Show and stuff, we have a lot of sessions and learnings that are gonna key in, on these topics for retailers and they’re fighting for it right now. And it’s not just us, it’s restaurants, it’s grocery, it is that service industry. So yeah, it’s, the struggle is real.

Carolyn Schnare:
And I think too, just like you said, it’s…I mean, customer service is clearly the thing that folks want to see, the customers want to be serviced with a smile, I think. And so don’t just give in. Don’t be like, ‘hey, I just need a warm body standing at the front desk or the front of the cashier or the front of the house,’ just because you need help. Keep training, keep smiling, keep keep pushing that culture and and don’t give up. And I think if you do it well, highlight it and then continue to do it better. And it is cleanliness, just like I said, at the top of the show, clean well-lit stores. Get out there and if you’re short-handed, then double-up and get out there and scrape the gum off the parking lot and make sure it’s a nice welcoming place because that’s what’s going to draw folks in, at least here in the U.S. I mean, we drive, we come for gas and then they go in for other stuff more often than I think in Europe, it’s the other way around, I think. So double down and just keep doing what you’re doing well, and just do it even a little bit better, and you’ll get rewarded by the customers wanting to keep coming back. And then cleanliness and safety is always going to be important. And one thing I read earlier today was that of all the things that you did during the pandemic, just keep washing your hands. Don’t give up on that. And it’s the same thing for, well, that’s just my PSA for today. Just keep washing your hands. But, I think in general, like keep cleaning the stores, keep shining the counters and washing the windows, but especially make it look and feel like not grimy and not germy and stuff like that. Cause I don’t think any of us want to go back to a germy time before. I think we’ve all realized that that health and safety is really important. So that’s another thing. Those are the, those are the things that I think retailers need to continue to pay attention to and some trends that I really hope stick, including wash your hands.

Mike Zahajko:
That is so awesome. And combining Chris, your comments about, is it fixable and can you just throw money at it? You know, the interesting thing is we saw a study where there’s a large retailer adding many sites without adding many sites every year. And so they look at the customer ratings, what are customers reviews and what are the SNG scores coming back on their sites. And usually you’d expect for them to have higher than their peer reviews for a long time. But the surprising part is that long time it was only 85 days. So you invest millions of dollars, make a great store, but then after 85 days, it’s like Carolyn said, they’re not picking up the gum or washing the windows. Those are just daily maintenance that have to maintain the great sites. And I think that’s a scary factor where you can invest a lot, have a great design, but if your frontline store employees don’t do a great job of greeting their customers and providing that welcoming experience, even the best investments, the strategies, can ultimately be not realized for the customer.

Chris Blasinsky:
It goes back to what Nick was saying about that culture that the company is creating, because that’s the kind of stuff that permeates from the top down, right. Everyone’s buying into the culture. Everyone believes in the culture. Every company has a culture. You might not like it, but you have one, trust me. So yeah, I think everything that you guys have summed up about how to really advance and move forward through some of these really large issues right now. It is telling your story and being…lean on that marketing department and just get it out there. I mean, Mike, you guys are looking at Google Reviews. I mean, that’s a good…Google Trends is another good way to kind of get the pulse of what’s going on and that kind of stuff, it’s all it’s out there. It’s free, you can look it up anytime you want and see where people’s heads are at. And you can certainly see where they’re at when it comes to your stores. So I think that if you don’t like it, you gotta change it, ’cause the only one who can tell your story is you or someone else is going to do it and you might not like it.

Carolyn Schnare:
That’s a really good way to say that. And I think you know, we’re running up on time here, so it’s looking at the competition is important. Like we started, it’s going to see what’s out there, what’s over there, wherever it is. It’s checking out what other people are doing, just so you know, a little situational awareness, but also getting some great ideas, but then it’s also turning around, looking at yourself and looking at what your customers are saying, just like Chris said. So I think the takeaway here would be just keep your eyes open and when you can, if you can, maybe take a little trip, whether it’s closer or whether it’s far. So Nick, you mentioned, and you both mentioned some, really great things that I want to mention real quick on where to find them, because I know you’ve got some awesome videos up on your site between the competition that you mentioned earlier, Mike, and the Best of the Best Awards, which are some of the things that we’ve done and NACS. Where can listeners go to find more? And I’m going to put some of the those in the show notes too. So tell us, tell us where to find you and then all that information.

Nick Scherzer:
Yeah. A great resource is Global Convenience Store Focus, which is the website we run. And really it’s a combination of retailer stories predominantly and things that are trends that are happening within the industry. So there’s a number of unique feature articles on that site, looking at retailers from around the world. And then there’s our Shop Talk Live webinars series, which is hosted on that platform too and Chris referenced it early and effectively. It’s partly a conversation around the industry as well as connecting with retailers and seeing what’s happening in their businesses, in their stores. So, there’s a bit of store tour elements on there virtually and great place to check out a lot of that information.

Carolyn Schnare:
Awesome. And Mike, where can we find you? Are you on LinkedIn?

Mike Zahajko:
I’m on LinkedIn a lot. Our website is MyCAF.com and we try and post some of those lessons and learnings, because like you said, before, retailers are happy to share their best practices and what’s good and out there so we’ve had the unique ability to just go see what everyone else is doing and grab some of the best practices to make them available and share them. And that’s where I think we can all learn from each other and we don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time you’re trying to say, ‘well, how should I go to disinfect my pumps or what should I do out here?’ There’s already a process for it, it would save us a lot of time.

Carolyn Schnare:
That’s really cool. Well guys, thank you for joining us, Mike, Nick, Chris, this was awesome as always, thank you so much for awesome ideas, hopefully you guys got…you listeners got some good ideas and takeaways and will join us on one of these global trips or even domestic US trips someday. And thank you all for listening to Convenience Matters.

Convenience Matters Outro:
Convenience Matters is brought to you by NACS and produced in partnership with Human Factor. For more information, visit convenience.org.

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